Interviews:

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Aldrich

Bulik
Joe

Graybeal
Sidney

Grimes
Sandy

Mabey
John

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Stansfield



     
   


INTERVIEW WITH JOE BULIK - 31.1.98

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JB: In the 1960s, TWA used to take a Polaroid pictures of some of its passengers and this one was taken actually while I was on my first trip to London in April 1961. This is a picture of Oleg Penkovsky in his uniform and all of his medals, which he earned during World War Two. A handsome man. And at the Mount Royal Hotel, this is a picture of Oleg on the left and yours truly on the right having a glass of wine after one of our long, tiresome, tiring meetings, not tiresome, but tiring.

INT: Do it again. Let's start again...

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JB: Oh, in the 1960s, the TWA stewardesses used to take Polaroid photographs of some of its passengers and this one was actually taken in April 1961, when I was going in a very excited manner to meet with Penkovsky in London. I think you can see some of the excitement in my face. This is a photograph of Oleg Penkovsky, Colonel in the Red Army with all his medals which he earned during World War Two. A handsome soldier and a great American patriot and I regret that he hasn't been given the Congressional Medal of Honor. This photograph was taken in the hotel room at the Mount Royal in London in April 1961, after one of our meetings, where Oleg Penkovsky on the left and yours truly on the right enjoying a small glass of wine. We never drank too much, but we had to relax a little bit after one of our tiring meetings. And this photograph is Oleg looking at photographs of KGB and GRU officers throughout the world, so that he could identify them for us and my compatriot, the official interpreter, George Kisevalter is on the right. George died here recently. And here's another photograph of Oleg looking at photographs of the Soviets. He helped us considerably in that regard.

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JB: This is a photograph of Oleg Penkovsky looking at photographs of Soviets throughout the world in their various embassies and trade missions, so that he could identify KGB and GRU officers and in many cases he was successful and in other cases he just didn't know who the person was, but he was very useful in that regard and after the case was blown, I'm told that about three hundred to six hundred of the KGB officers were recalled back to the Soviet Union. And this is one of our working sessions at the Mount Royal Hotel, where George on the right was reading some requirement and Penkovsky was about to respond.

INT: Is that a shopping list situation there, do you think, or what?

JB: That's our shopping list that George is holding, yes.

INT: Just tell me that one more time.

JB: we came prepared to these meetings with Oleg with our own requirements, which one can call a shopping list and that's what George is holding in his hands as he's asking questions of Oleg to respond to and he was very good at it. This is a photograph where Oleg wanted to be taken body and soul into the American and British armies. we provided with, in this case, of a uniform of an American colonel.

INT: Just do that one more time...

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JB: At our second set of meetings in London, in the summer and fall of 1961, Oleg wanted to be taken into the British and American armies. So we provided him with the uniforms of each that he could wear and this is a photograph of Oleg in an American uniform, which I was able to borrow from the US military attaché in London, whom I happened to know, and didn't ask questions. This is the same photograph, but in a British uniform. A handsome British officer he is, even to the point of holding gloves. And this last photograph shows the difference in Oleg during the course of the trial and you can see that he'd been through hell.

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JB: This photograph was taken during the trial in Moscow, where Oleg...

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INT: 10965. Joe showing us photographed continued. In your own time on this one, Joe.

JB: This is a photograph of Oleg Penkovsky taken by the Soviets during the trial in 1963 and one can see by the look on his face and by the facial features that he'd gone under hell, particularly when he's compared to a more visible one... No, that's not good.

INTERRUPTION

JB: This is a photograph of Oleg Penkovsky taken by the Soviets during his trial in 1963 and I could see and one else can see the hell he'd been through by looking at his face, particularly when one compares with the previous photograph of him.

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JB: Particularly when you... compared with the way he used to look.

INT: One more time.

JB: Particularly when you compare it to the way he used to look, as the photograph of him on the left shows.

INT: Good, that's great. That was very good.

END OF INTERVIEW