INT: [Inaudible]

JM: Well, when Polyakov more or less dumped me out of the car in the eighties on Riverside Drive, it's very hard to explain the feelings that I had, mainly because of the accomplishment we had here, which was in effect a defector in place and in deep place, you might say. It was the first time that we had ever developed an inside agent that was able to give us information from within a Soviet establishment. this was an accomplishment and probably the dream of every kind of intelligence agent during the [inaudible] getting the inside story, especially in the United States and [inaudible] the position that he had in the illegal branch of the GRU., so when I got back to the office, there were probably five or ten agents who were waiting around for the results of the evening and we felt pretty elated, but we didn't celebrate with drinks or anything like that, but... by this time it was after midnight and everyone was feeling pretty good and went home feeling pretty good too. So I'll take it up from there., the next meeting, of course, as pre-arranged, took place at the seventh floor safe house that we had taken over. he appeared as scheduled and I believe it was around two in the afternoon or thereabouts, came in and it was decided that we had to develop a little rapport with this man, we had to know more about his personality and how he felt about us and that type of thing, so a good part of that meeting was taken up finding out and developing a rapport. you can't carry on a situation like this with cold facts. You gotta sit down with a person and he's gotta understand you and you've gotta understand him. so this meeting was mainly, for the most part, in that vein, although we did follow up on a few questions about the individuals he named while we were in the car up at Grant's Tomb. After that, we arranged for the next meeting, which was approximately another week away in the same location, the same time and it went on like that for four or five different meetings, all in that safe house. Towards the end, he said, I think we ought to change our location, this is getting a little too close to home and he was very security conscious. so I said, fine, would you agree to meet me at a business type safe house, which would be in Lower Manhattan? He says, that's fine. So we developed this and the legwork of all of this was Ed Moody's. We had the case and he developed the safe house that was on Madison Avenue, I forget the exact address. I relayed this on to Polyakov and he agreed to it and for the next two or three months we met at this place. Again, it was in mid-week, mid-afternoon, all of the meetings lasted anywhere from an hour and a half to two and a half-hours. it turns out that his time was very valuable and he had to account not only with his resident chief, but also with his family, he had to account for his whereabouts and this was standard practice with the Soviets. so he was limited as to how often he could meet and how long he could meet with us. but we did arrange at least once a week and on a couple of occasions twice a week to spend an hour and a half or two hours together. during these meetings he gave us new information about American intelligence agents that the Soviets had co-opted and he told us a wealth of information about illegals activities in this country, which is a very sensitive thing, because the illegals are just almost impossible to identify. But he identified all of the illegals that he was aware of anyway that were in the United States or had been in the United States. There were three of 'em we had already uncovered, but he filled us in on all of these things. It so happened that he trained illegals back in the Soviet Union and two of the couples that were here, both illegals, man and wife, were trained by him personally and dispatched to this country.... in identifying the American agents that he knew, he gave us their name, their rank, how long that they had co-oper


INT: Was there a story about getting rid of those photographs?

JM: Oh, OK. As I said we had literally thousands of pictures and there was a problem after I had made my normal notations of identifying 'em by paper and what not, what do we do with these pictures, they were bulky and... I figured we might be stopped going through French customs with these things, so we had to get rid of 'em. The first indication was to flush 'em down the toilet. Well, toilets on board the Queen Elizabeth don't accept pictures for one reason or another, there wasn't enough [inaudible] of water to carry the pictures down. So we figured the next alternative was to throw 'em out the porthole. At that time the Queen Elizabeth wasn't air-conditioned and the portholes opened, fortunately, so we opened it up and tried throwing 'em out there, but the wind was so great, it was blowing back on the deck. We ran out and recovered what we could of them before they flew into the captain's quarters and brought them back and I guess it was Ed Moody who kind of came up with the idea, well, we'll put these in a paper sack, a plastic sack actually, and anchor 'em down with flashlight batteries, which were very heavy, tie 'em up together and out the porthole they went, which we did. They sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean and that was the means that we got rid of those. everything else was in paper form and I had, after each meeting, taken these notes that I had taken and dictated 'em on to a tape recorder, so what we carried through customs were the tapes, which were the normal tapes that you would put in a Sony or whatever and we felt pretty safe there. at Cherbourg it was the last time I saw him. he was getting on the train, which was the same train that we were using to go to Paris, but he was not in the same berth or same compartment and that was the last time I saw him. We continued on to Paris. We had agreed that if it was necessary and in his choice, he could contact us at the hotel we were staying in Paris and make any last minute arrangements that he desired. He didn't choose to do this and I presume he went right on to the Soviet Union. We in turn came back through London, wanted to see Buckingham Palace, and returned to the United States. we went over there on first class on the Queen Elizabeth, but we returned in tourist class on Pan Am. So we came back and the next paof the story actually was two years of waiting. as indicated, we could communicate with him through the New York Times, by placing an article in there, making an inquiry as to the welfare of Sister Jane or Cousin Dennis or whatever, which were the code names we gave to signal sites and to drop areas. we eventually did place an ad in the New York Times. Incidentally, he said - this was his suggestion - he says, I have access to the New York Times in my job in Moscow, because of my position, and I can read it, it might be a week later, but I would check the New York Times there. Well, eventually - I don't remember the exact date - we did put an ad in the Times indicating that if he saw fit, he should make a signal at the designated signal area, an area of the fill, the designated drop., he didn't do it. We waited. I suppose CIA, who was operating at that end of the line made their checks, but nothing, we heard nothing from him. In fact we didn't hear anything from him for two years, nearly two years. finally we got a message. That message was very curt. in effect it said that everything was fine, he was working at such and such job, however, he was going to be transferred in the near future and he thought he was going to be sent to Greece, Athens. This was fine. no dates or anything were mentioned in his message. He knew we had the means of determining if he was actually transferred, by showing up at their embassy wherever. it so happened he never turned up in Athens, much to my chagrin, because I think I would have loved to have gone to Athens. Instead, about six months later, we got a message from the CIA and they