Interviews:

Brownell,
Herb

De Toledano,
Ralph

Eisenberg,
Frances

Goldstucker,
Eduard-1

Goldstucker,
Eduard-2

Kinoy,
Arthur

Lardner,
Ring

Nowak,
Jan

Robeson,
Paul

Service,
John

Swearingen,
M. Wesley



     
   


INTERVIEW WITH Professor Edouard Goldstucker

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Q:

Could I just ask you to go back to that question and incorporate a bit of my question, that you were a committed communist, who suddenly was, everything was turned on it's head.

A:

Well I was a committed communist ever since my very young days. It is very difficult to explain today, especially the generations grown up since then, which, who never went through that experience. It is very difficult to explain that after the First World war, the Soviet Union and communism, promised to bring about, create a society of equals, of solidarity, of human solidarity of justice. That was presented to us as young people, and in a situation where we had the possibility of choosing, we lived in a democratic society after 1918. At 1918 I was five and a half years old when Czechoslovakia was born, and as young people we went to the extremes of what we hoped for. There was Soviet Russia, revolutionary Russia which went about to build such a society. It was not a theory any longer, or a well, a philosophical concept. But it was being realised, and that idea with the attempt to realise it had such a tremendous attractive power to our young minds. That we embraced it, with a whole enthusiasm of our young years. In general those twenties, thirties, were years where the, I don't know, a very considerable part of intellectual life was inspired directly or less directly, by the existence of the Soviet Union and the communist ideas. And as we were young at that time, it took us in it's well, in it's power. The more, the more young we were. Our teachers, our literary authors which we liked most were of that sort of feeling, that sort of outlook.

Q:

So what did, in an atmosphere like that what did the show trial and your own trial do to you?

A:

Oh no, add to each that it was, that was the years where fascism took hold around us more and more. At the end of it we were the only island of democracy in this central part of Europe. Everything around us went fascist of totalitarian, or dictatorial. We were the only island of democracy. We were the only country which corresponded to the ideals of the victors of the First World war. To establish democratic regimes, democratic societies. And that was threatened as the thirties went on, the threat became more and more and more tangible so to speak. And we were convinced that the only power the only power that can stop that fascistation of Europe was the Soviet Union. I joined the communist student movement in 1933, under the impact of Hitler having come to power in Germany.

Q:

But with that tradition, in 51, what happened then, to you, what happened to your thinking?

A:

Well it happened that, that the whole development went wrong and it is necessary to do whatever one can do to bring it back to the original idea. That means to reform the system.

Q:

The last question was going to be what was the most shocking thing that happened to you?

What was the most shocking thing in that process you went through?

A:

The most shocking was obviously my arrest. Because I was aware of the fact that I didn't commit anything I should be arrested for, never-the-less I was arrested. And I was treated as the most contemptible criminal from the very beginning. That was a shock, that the Party and the government I was very loyal towards, for years, from my young years, suddenly arrest, let me arrested as a horrible criminal. At first shock and second when I started being interrogated, I suddenly saw that I believed in something which became a lie. A horrible murderous lie. That was the greatest shock. The arrest and the realisation that I am being considered as a criminal of the worst kind, suddenly. Imagine you live as a loyal citizen to your country, and your government, and that government and that country suddenly lets you be arrested and accused of the horrible, most horrible crimes. That is a terrible shock. That breach of loyalty towards you, although you maintained your loyalty towards that thing. And then you see the trials, already in, during the trial in Hungary, it was concluded that the centre of the conspiracy is, was in Czechoslovakia. And already then a list of sixty or so names was compiled, as enemies of the state, of the people, and even to GOTTWALD by the then leader of Hungary. As with a request of dealing with these people as enemies of the state. My name was in those, among those sixty, I learnt later. At that time I was appointed ambassador of Czechoslovakia to Israel. I still was in Prague before going to Tel Aviv, to take up my post, but the wife of one already arrested during my stay here, was being questioned about, was being asked to confess, to talk about my anti-state activities. I was still in Prague as appointed ambassador. I learned later, and that was the first conclusion that the centre of the international conspiracy was in Czechoslovakia, and that it is necessary to deal with it. And hence the preparations for the show trials in Czechoslovakia which eventually became the Slansky trial. After a two years of decision, seeking what kind of conspiracy it should be. At the end it was the anti-semitic scenario which was chosen as I already, already mentioned. And these trials were the most brutal in Czechoslovakia, because Czechoslovakia because Czechoslovakia was the most Western of Stalin's newly acquired territories of influence, and it as such should, must have been broken. Should have been broken by the most terroristic methods, and that is why those, you see, of the fourteen indicted persons, with Slansky eleven were sentenced to, to death and executed. And the brutality is even manifest from the fact that the ashes of these executed eleven people, were not returned to their families, but as it was in a very cold winter, the ashes were strewn on the road, on the icy roads. So there you see the brutality.

Q:

During the trials everything was rehearsed, and you, what was it like?

A:

Everything was rehearsed. The final text prepared for the trial, consisting of questions whicwere put to one by the, the general attorney and the president of the court, and so on, were listed and your answers were listed. It was a scenario prepared by the Secret Police, as for a theatre, and it was rehearsed like for a theatre. We were all rehearsed from time to time, to what extent we already learned the text, and only ifwhen we learned the text was the trial, came the day of the trial.

Q:

Thank you very much Professor Goldstucker.

A:

That's all?

Q:

Yes it is.

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