Attachment 11


I hereby certify this to be a true copy of original deposition
total of 104 pages.  This 2nd day of July, ILLEGIBLE, County of
ILLEGIBLE, State of Oregon

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Q    Do you know if the project originally contemplated the
     radiation treatments which subsequently became part of the
     project?

Q    No.

Q    It did not?

A    It did not.

Q    Why was this project started in the first place?

A    Which one?

Q.   Well, the project at the Oregon State Penitentiary.  What
     was the purpose of it?

A.   You will have to ask Dr. Heller that, but I believe it was
     so that the workings of the male reproductive system could
     be determined because they were not known and medically this
     makes it a difficult task to evaluate somebody either for
     potential fertility increase, the increase of fertility in
     men who are unable to father children, or to develop a male
     contraceptive agent, both of which were needed and still
     are.

MR. Kilgemann:  Dr. Heller, can you add to that?

DR. HELLER:    We were interested in the beginning specifically
in the gonad-pituitary relationship, the way the pituitary
affected the testes and the way the testes affected the pituitary
gland.  We had methods for determining this in blood and urine,
at that time, as a matter of fact, in urine only, so our big
problem was to collect and transport urine first to the
University of Oregon and then later to the Foundation.  That was
a big problem to get it hauled up.

Q.   Was it part of the radiation aspect of the project to also
     look at the effect on the pituitary gland on the gonads?

DR. HELLER.    Indeed

A.   It is impossible to evaluate the reproductive system without
     incorporating the pituitary hormones.

Q.   Why is it necessary to use radiation to do that?

A.   It isn't.

Q.   So that radiation did not have anything to do with this part
     of the project then?

Mr. Kilgemann:     For how many years, approximately ten?

Dr. Heller:    Right.

Mr. Kilgemann:     Did you go back to the  State of Oregon for
permission to expand your research program to the radiation
aspect.

Dr. Heller:    Yes.

Mr. Kilgemann:  To whom did you talk at the State of Oregon at
that time?

Dr. Heller:  Dr. Di Inooni and Warden Gladden.

Mr. Kilgemann:  And they gave you permission to continue these
tests?

Dr. Heller:    Right.  The radiologist, the man who took X-rays
and read X-rays at the Penitentiary, was consulted, and they also
wanted us to get the opinion of people in radiology at the
University of Oregon who were not at that point directly
involved.

Mr. Kilgemann:     During the course of the radiation aspect of the
project from 1963 to 1973, did you report to anyone from the
State of Oregon or the Corrections Division about the progress of
the program?

Dr. Heller.    Indirectly, yes.

Mr. Kilgemann:     Could you explain that, please.

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